Navigating Complexity: What Independent Practices Need to Thrive

What does an economist see when he looks at independent veterinary practice? In this episode, Martin and Peter sit down with Dr. Matt Salois, President of Veterinary Management Groups (VMG), for a wide-ranging conversation about where independent practice is headed, what's holding it back, and why the practices willing to be disciplined and intentional are the ones with the brightest future. Matt also tackles Question #3 of the Stethoscope & Spreadsheet Seven, and his answer might surprise you.

In this episode:

• Why independent veterinary practices are far more sophisticated than they're given credit for
• The two biggest headwinds: complexity and a shrinking margin for "good enough"
• The key tailwinds: speed, agility, and the ability to make decisions close to the point of care
• VMG's "Proudly Independent" initiative, shifting the conversation from fear to identity and strength
• Why the future of vet medicine will be shaped by productivity and execution, not chasing the next shiny technology
• Navigating generational differences in a profession with five generations of vets, owners, and employees
• VMG's mission to tell a bigger story about why independence in veterinary medicine is worth preserving

Timestamps:
00:00 — Intro & welcome
00:47 — Introducing inaugural guest Dr. Matt Salois
02:01 — Matt's background: economist, recovering academic, and how he found veterinary medicine
03:06 — Why Matt's path into vet med was serendipity, not strategy
04:21 — Peter takes credit for bringing Matt into the profession at AVMA
04:43 — Matt's early career: chief economist for the state of Florida
05:13 — From Elanco Animal Health to AVMA to VMG
08:01 — How Matt came to lead VMG, and the phone call that started it all
10:29 — What VMG members are dealing with day to day
10:51 — VMG's role in one sentence: helping independent owners navigate complexity
13:16 — Where is the profession going? Unpacking the headwinds
16:04 — Complexity as the defining challenge of independent ownership today
20:56 — The tailwinds: why independent practices have real competitive advantages
23:31 — Independent practices start from a higher bar than most businesses and don't get enough credit
23:51 — VMG's "Proudly Independent" initiative: from defense and fear to identity and strength
26:05 — Navigating five generations of vets, pet owners, and employees simultaneously
27:25 — On generational divide: humility, adaptability, and letting go of "the right way"
30:04 — What Matt is most excited about at VMG
30:47 — VMG by the numbers: nearly 2,400 member practices and growing
31:11 — Helping members become stronger operators and leaders, not just connected peers
33:20 — Technology, AI, and why execution matters more than innovation
34:56 — It's still about the people; technology is adjunctive
35:20 — VMG's mission to tell the story of independent veterinary medicine
36:18 — The Stethoscope & Spreadsheet Seven: Matt picks Question #3
36:56 — What keeps Matt up at night? Ideas, and a whole lot of gin and club soda
40:24 — Closing reflections from Peter and Martin
43:16 — Outro

Mentioned in this episode:

• Veterinary Management Groups (VMG) · myvmg.com
• American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA)
• VMG's "Proudly Independent" initiative

New episodes every two weeks. Supported by Veterinary Management Groups (VMG) · myvmg.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Running an independent veterinary practice takes an active thought and an active courage. You carry the weight of the medicine and the weight of the business, often at the same time. This show is not for the faint of heart, but for the proudly independent people who do that every day. I'm Dr. Peter Weinstein.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

And I'm Martin Troller. And this is the stethoscope in the spreadsheet. Easy for you to say, huh? I know. I've had to say stethoscope more times than this preparing for our podcast than I care to think. And we should add it with thanks to VMG for your support. Okay, Peter, what do we got today?

SPEAKER_03 0:47

What do we got today? First of all, for those of you who get to see this, this is Bruce. Bruce is my constant companion when it comes to podcasts. And this is the human side of what we do every day. It's taking care of the animals that we have in our households. But we have a very important animal joining us today. In fact, he's very highly recognized in the profession for his knowledge, his expertise, and his dad jokes. And I can't say anything except that I am totally honored and pleased to welcome Dr. Matt Soloy from VMG to be our inaugural guest on the stethoscope. And I want to call it the slide rule, but the stethoscope and the spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Matt, thank you for I'm not that old, Peter.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Hey, you picked a real tongue twister with this one, the stethoscope and the spreadsheet. It's the word stethoscope. It's gonna trip you up every time, isn't it? It's true, it's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

So hey Matt, thanks for joining us. So before we get rolling, do you want to give us a quick who is Matt for those of us who refer for those who may not know you, which would it's hard to imagine, but you know, I I think there's a few a few dark corners where I haven't haven't entered into.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

No, yeah, happy to yeah, Matt Sloy. I'm a those of you who don't know me, I'm an economist by training, and I I can't believe when I tally up the years, I've spent around 12 years now inside around animal health and and veterinary medicine. Prior to that, I spent a bit of my career in the the food and ag side and as well as what I call myself still a recovering academic, spent my early formative years as a university professor and and researcher because I had this silly idea when I was younger that I wanted to be a professor for the rest of my life. Thankfully, I came to my senses and started to do something more useful and practical than that, which has inevitably brought me to the wonderful profession of veterinary medicine.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

So, Matt, I mean, you were an academic, you're an economist, and economics and veterinary medicine are kind of on both ends of the spectrum, but somehow you bridge the two of them. Did you ever think when you were in teaching that you'd end up in veterinary medicine?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Yeah, you know, it began with a carefully crafted plan that started in the womb, right? This is where I no, who does that, right? There's no it was serendipity. No, there was never a thought that I'd I'd be in animal health or or veterinary medicine for that matter. It was just a series of uh choices that probably are far more coincidental and that would be carefully planned or or carved out, which may be wholly disappointing for people and listeners to know that it wasn't a strategic plan that started, you know, at year year eight or year nine of my life, which you know, ironically, that's when I think a lot of people think about being a veterinarian, right? It's just at this young age, and you know, strange as it sounds, you don't hear a lot of people around kids eight or nine saying, I want to be an economist. It's just it's you don't come, you don't come across too many of those. And and so I think I'm really fortunate to to be here. I think I think about this this podcast, my entry into veterinary medicine really began in the spreadsheet side of things, right? Learning to provide an economic lens to issues in inside veterinary medicine, which is what I've been doing now for the better part of a of a decade, which I can't I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

I can't believe it either. Now, didn't I break you in at AVMA? I mean, you came in as a just a green economist into the profession and took over the AVMA's economic division when I was on the economic strategy committee. And I mean, wasn't I one of the people who screwed you up, who got you most integrated into veterinary medicine? I take full responsibility for any outcome now.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Still wearing the scars of that experience. No, it's funny. I you know, I think of myself coming into the AVMA as at least mid-career, but you know, I think back on those years, I you know, it was just a little baby, I guess. And what did I know? No, thankfully I'd already had you know been around the block a little bit there. So prior to AVMA, I was the chief economist for the state of Florida supporting the Department of Ag and Consumer Services. So I did a lot of work with you know farmers, ranchers, growers across.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

I didn't know that. I didn't know that piece of aging.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Yeah, yeah. It was it was probably more of a disaster for the people I serve because it was it was my first real job out of outside of academia. So it was really a great, it was a great experience for me to bring economics out of the ivory tower and into the hands of everyday business people trying to support a living and support an economy, the agricultural economy in the state. And then eventually I found my way to Alanco Animal Health. And that was back in 2012, 2014 or so. And that was really where I started to get involved in inside animal health more deeply. And that was a great experience because I get to work with a lot of really smart people across different professions and trainings, not just veterinarians, but animal scientists, nutritionists, food safety experts. And a lot of my work still then was on the food and farm side of animal health, which was kind of more more parallel to where I was in the in the agricultural side of applied economics, but started to dabble into these animal health issues. And then when the the original, the the initial chief economist of the AVMA had retired, I was fortunate to know. Dr. Dix, right? Yeah, Dr. Mike Dix. And it was funny, we we knew each other in the ag space because he was at Oklahoma State University. I was doing some work at the University of Florida and our pads had intertwined, so we had known each other. But then, yeah, in 2018, that's when I came to the AVMA and really started to dig into. And that's where I think I was I wasn't a newbie economist at that point, but I I would still say I was building my learning of the companion animal side of veterinary medicine and all the other angles of it, right? Public health and education and all these different aspects that veterinary medicine touches. And so I was grateful to have Peter on the Veterinary Economics and Strategy Committee, Link Wellbourne, just a great group of people, Cammy Bailey, just so many wonderful minds that come across all these different aspects of veterinary medicine. And when you look at that, I mean that's just something the richness. Yes, it's the it's the medicine and the veterinary professionals, the veterinarians are the anchor, but there's so many thoughts and disciplines and and professions that, you know, Martin, you come at this from a lot of different angles around the entrepreneur, the data angle, now bookkeeping, right? I mean, there's just so many ancillary services with inside veterinary medicine, which just makes it a really exciting place to be. And so again, I came in through this spreadsheet, you know, as an economist, but I think what I've really enjoyed about my time in this profession has been the mission and the purpose that that fuels it, because I think there are there are a few things that are as ubiquitous as pet ownership, right? And it really sorts of it really sort of brings people together in a way that very few things do in this country.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Hey, so today, of course, you're the president of VMG. So would love to hear that sort of quick sort of 90 seconds on how that how that happened. And then and then specifically want to ask a bit about VMG and that and what you're doing with independent practices.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Yeah, I I can't, I love where I am today. It's just a huge, huge blessing and hugely fortunate to be in a position to lead VMG and be so connected to to practices, independent practices specifically. I mean, the long and shorter, but I came to VMG through just again a network of connections and having built that up over the years. I I mentioned I mentioned Link Wellbourne, who's the one of the founders and of VMG, and we knew each other through my role at the AVMA. And so the the president of of VMG was was retiring and they were looking for a replacement. And I was at the sort of at the stage of my life, this was coming out of out of COVID around you know 2022, 2021, 2022. And I'm just sort of starting to reevaluate everything, I think, as everyone was during that that period of time. And I saw that opportunity. I just remember really clearly the day that I decided to to call Link and ask him about the role. And so we're talking. I'm asking him about it. He's like, So, do you know anyone who would be interested? And the position, I was like, Me, Link, I'm interested. And I remember this pause of silence, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I've just ruined this relationship. And he's like, Wow, Matt, I I never in a million years would have thought that you'd be interested, but man, you'd be damn good at this job, I think. And I was like, that was what I was looking for. So it I ended up, you know, throwing my hat into the ring and like every role you have a round of interviews and and landed with with BMG. And it's just again been a wonderful experience. And I reflect back on a lot of my history around operating so much at a macro level, a policy level in economics, especially at AMA, that was a lot of policy-driven work. Now I'm really getting into the micro aspect of it. The policy and the macro are still there and they're the supporting force, but really having to get into the minds of the everyday practice, the everyday practitioner, the everyday owner, and really bring economics to a level that can help address some of their challenges and help unlock some of these opportunities that every small business, be it a veterinary practice or not, are trying to are trying to navigate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Is there is there are there specific problems that you seek to help your VMG members solve? Or is VMG just a resource for your members, or or are you, at least in your role, are there specific problems that you are trying to help the VMG members solve?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think I mean I think the short answer to that, Peter, is that there's no no two days look exactly the same, which is probably why I enjoy what I do so much. You know, I think as president BMG, I I sit at a pretty, a pretty interesting altitude. And by that I mean on the one hand, I'm thinking a lot about a lot about strategy, big strategy, strategic questions around where is the profession going? Where are independent practices vulnerable? Where do they have real opportunity? And on the other hand, being a member-based organization, and I think I bring a lot of this from again the ABMA days, I'm also really focused on what our members need right now, you know, in the real world. So at a day-to-day level, that can mean I'm working with the BMG staff team on member strategy or peer group development, or talking about partnerships or marketing content, research, events. And on the other side, it means I'm having a lot of conversations. And I think this gets more to your question around our members and the practice owners, right? Around what's keeping them awake at night in terms of the problems and challenges. And I think, you know, when I reflect on them, they're pretty, they're pretty consistent in the sense that they fall into big buckets, like I think any small business does. They're asking questions like, how do I how do I grow my practice without losing my culture? Or how do I lead people well in a really challenging labor market, in a really challenging market in general. I think some of the big bigger questions right now, given what's going on in the economy and just society in general, is they're they're asking questions like how do I stay independent and still compete at a high level when risks from the larger groups, consolidation are there and they're deep. And I think one of the biggest questions that's pretty constant in the in the makeup and the genetics of BMG practices is they're they're constantly looking at how they make good financial decisions and what be is really becoming a more and more noisy market environment. And that's where BMG steps in through through the peer groups and through additional resources and services that we provide to help them with those questions and those challenges.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Okay. Man, there's a lot there.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Just there's always so much, right? You never know which direction the conversation's gonna go in.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Where's where's the profession going? As independent practices, where are they vulnerable and what opportunities do they have? Those are play playing back your words. Maybe can you unpack those three a little bit for us?

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yeah, yeah. And maybe I should start with the simplest answer to the what was, I guess, a direct question is and this is I tend to talk a lot, but or at least my kids say that. When are you gonna stop? Breathe, Dad. But it I think I think my role as pres president and the role of BMG in general is helping independent independent veterinary practice owners navigate complexity. I think that's that's it in a sentence. And some of that operates at a strategic level where the market is going at what it means for them. And then the other side is very practical, very tactical around leadership, staffing, profitability, growth, partnerships, and decision making. So that at the end of the day, if BMG is being successful, if I'm being successful in my role, we're helping practices be less isolated and we're supporting them and helping them be better equipped to lead well for their staff and for their teams, for their clients and their and their patients. And so there's a lot of little things that go into that. But that's that's the big picture. That's probably the the simpler answer I should have started with than the diatribe I went on. Yeah, you laugh, Peter. You you see I've learned from you, right? This is part of the problem. I've asked you questions and then I get I get an hour-long lecture. But they've all been rewarding and educational, so I I'm not complaining.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

And it it's uh, and we've talked about this in other conversations. We're kind of at an inflection point. I don't, I think, at least in my 40 years within the profession, I've ever seen so much going on within our businesses internally, and so many external variables impacting the profession. I mean, it's it's it's really tremendous amount of fission and fusion going on, and and really I'm afraid of the nuclear explosion that could occur. So, you know, the last five years, six years now, since the pandemic, the change the speed of change, the rapidity of change, both forced and voluntarily, have taken the profession in so many different directions. Some of them are are leading us in the right way, and some of us are some of them are pushing back. Headwinds and tailwinds. What what do you look what what are you seeing in in the future? And what are you seeing that's slowing us down? What are the things that are moving us forward and what are the things that's slowing us down?

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yeah, goodness, there's a lot there. And I think I'll caution that you know, being an economist again, we're we're sometimes labeled the the dismal science, right? Because it's easy for economists to do that. We're really good at it. Our training, and I and I think that's because you keep and you're smiling, Martin. You know all too well, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:26

So I keep I keep telling you out. I'm like, come on, Matt, say something positive.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Say something positive. Yeah, that's been very good coaching for you. And I got I gotta tell you, I'm trying to be more positive in my presentations at the end. I'm spending more time there because it is important. And I do think I'm a hopeful economist at the end of the day. But you know, economist training, there we're we're trained to point out what's wrong with systems, I think at the end of the day, around how constraints will limit choices, what are the right incentives, right? Or disincentives that are operating in in a typical market environment or in a in a business, a firm, or even at the individual level. So anyway, I think that's why we we come across that way. But it's really to to point out those those flaws, those issues in the system so that we can reach a better state of optimality, right? That's what tri economics is trying to achieve there. But I think on on on your question, Peter, uh, I'll start with the headwinds because I I think that's the that's the negative side, and then we can start with the tailwinds, right? And and more positively is you know, it is like I said earlier around BMG's purpose to help practices and owners navigate complexity. That's the biggest headwind, right now, is is complexity, I think. That that encapsulates everything that I think practice owners are trying to manage, not just a declining environment, market environment, right? The declining visits and revenue softness, that's that's cyclical. But what is more structural here is that every year we say the same thing, and I think it's just accelerated since COVID, is everything feels harder. Everything feels more difficult and challenging now than it did before. And so earner owners are operating in that environment, and that's just simply more demanding than it used to be. Labor is harder to manage, costs are higher, input costs are higher, right? We talk a lot about the affordability of veterinary care, but we have to do so very carefully because I think on the client side, the slippery slope there is, I think practices are gouging them, right? But the reality is that the cost of delivering care, labor and medicines and the other inputs, those have gone up, right? And so there's a whole supply chain happening here. Not to dismiss the consumer sensitivity, it's real, but the market is changing. The structure of that market is changing. I think I think also competition is a lot more sophisticated than it used to be. If you think back, you know, just 20 years ago, even just five to ten years ago, the the competitive structure, the competitive landscape is a lot more complicated. Not just between practices, but between all the ancillary providers who are supporting those practices. And the biggest challenge I see from a lot of VMG members in particular is that they're trying to maintain being an excellent clinician as raw as as as well as well as a strong employer and and leader, a disciplined business operator and a strategic leader all at once. And so they're trying to be it all. And that and that's hard. And I think that's why we often hear we often hear it's lonely at the top, right? I think that's again, we're gonna reflect on BMG, part of its role is to help reduce that that isolation. Ownership can be incredibly rewarding, but it can also be lonely. So a lot of our work is trying to help those independent owners make better decisions with stronger data, a stronger perspective, and and most importantly for us, stronger, stronger peers to help them. But but then you know, the other headwind I'd say uh side of complexity is that the the margin for good enough has gotten a lot smaller too. And by that I mean it's a practice can't just be clinically excellent and assume the rest will take care of itself anymore. The operational side matters a lot more now. The financial side matters a lot more, leadership matters a lot more. And so you really have to be a stellar leader. Every practice owner needs to think like a CEO and not just a not just a manager, right? They really have to balance that. So there's a lot there, but I think if I were to try to bucket those two headwinds, it's it the headwinds and the two big buckets, that's that's where I'd put them. Complexity, and then the margin for good enough has gotten smaller. What about the tailwinds? What about yes?

SPEAKER_01 20:53

They sound like something positive, say something inspiring.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

There's tailwinds for sure. I think I think independent practices are far more capable of a business than many people, including uh including ourselves within veterinary medicine, are far more capable than people give them credit for. I think there's a tendency to think of a of an independent practice as like a mom and pop down the street kind of entity, but they're not, they're highly sophisticated. And I think even amongst small businesses, a veterinary practice is highly sophisticated and a very complex business. It is, I think you've labeled it this way, uh Peter, and I think it's really smart, but it's consumer health care, right? And that that's difficult because you're wrapping in all the complexity of a consumer driven market, which is very volatile, right with with healthcare, which is hugely complex, right? And so it's different. Again, like you've said before, Peter, nothing in a dental practice dies usually, right? So you You are dealing with life and death decisions in a veterinary practice. But I think it's the sophistication that's a big tailwind because independent practices, not just VMG independent practices, but in general, they're incredibly sophisticated. And what I've seen over the last few years is that they're using data better, they're thinking more strategically, and they're building stronger cultures. And I'm seeing a lot more intentionality about making decisions on pricing and workflow and retention and the client experience. And so I think always there's always a runway to do better there, but I'm seeing a lot of progress and momentum in that. And then I think most importantly, independent practices as a tailwind is that they can move faster. They can adapt faster. They can make decisions, yeah, closer to the point of care and closer to the people that they serve. And so for me, I know Peter, you and I have talked a lot about that, you know, as we as we talked about, you know, the renaissance of independent veterinarian medicine, is that that's a real advantage that larger organizations often lose when they start to build these diseconomies of scope that we've we've talked about more. So I think, yes, the moment we're in it, it's challenging, things feel hard, but I think I think the environment is forcing independent owners to be more disciplined and intentional. And the ones that are willing to do that, which there are many, there's just a huge, I think a huge ocean of opportunity still ahead.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

You know what I love about that, Matt, that I'm reflecting on is the floor that we start up that veterinary practices start from is so much higher than where so many other businesses start from. And I don't think we give independent practices enough credit for it for that.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

That's super clever. Hey, so VMG has leaned in pretty heavily to Proudly Independent. Can you talk a little bit about what that initiative looks like tangibly? I I was fortunate enough to be at at VMG Congress and then down these little tent cards that you can put at your front desk that says privately independent, but presumably it's more than just a tent card.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Yeah, it is. And I and I think this message has become really important to us at VMG. I think for a while now, independence in veterinary medicine has been framed almost defensively. Like, how do we avoid getting swallowed up? Has been the question I hear a lot. How do we survive in a consolidating market? And those are really fair questions. And they come from a place I think of of fear ultimately at the end of the day. Fear that what they're building is not going to be lasting or sustainable because of the threats around them. And so what we're really trying to do with the proudly independent message is flip that script on its head and say, what if we move the conversation from defense and fear to identity and strength, right? Is what we're trying to do. Because being an independent independent is not just what you're not, it's not just not corporate, right? It's a very specific model of leadership and ownership. And for VMG, from what we hear from our members who are really embracing that uh that concept and notion is that it means autonomy, right? It means local on-the-ground decision making. It means being close to your team, your staff, your clients, your community, and your values. And and I think most importantly, it means that you still have the ability to build something that reflects who you are and your values, your core values as a individual and a leader and an owner operator, not just financially, financially, but but culturally and and professionally.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

There's you're an economist by trade. You're embedded in the veterinary profession right now. And one of the more significant discussion areas that has been going on is generational.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

And I think we've got about five generations of veterinarians delivering health care to five generations of pet owners with five generations of employees. I'm not sure in our lifetime we've had that sort of matrix. And at the same time, not that long ago, you mentioned the term simplification. So, how do we figure out how to navigate this exquisitely three by you know, three-dimensional matrix and make it simpler in the eyes of the end consumer? And as delivered by a team, it it just really gotta be an interesting conversation when you take all of those different variables. It's a multivariate equation, which economists obviously love. So, what are all those variables and how do we make it all come together?

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Yeah. Well, I mean, if we all had the silver bullet answer to that question, we probably could write a book.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

That would be a coarse light, would be the silver bullet answer to that.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

You know, I think we talk more about the generational divide than I think really exists at the end of the day. I think some of it's rhetoric and and a little bit of self-scripted narrative there. And I think if we reflect on history, I'm not sure there's ever been a generation that hasn't said the generation after it is less of who they were. That just sort of seems to be a a universal constant here. But I think what what helps here all of this, what I think helps in all of this more than anything else, is embracing humility and realizing that no one person, no one generation has it right that has all the answers. And, you know, unfortunately, and I think this can be said of a lot of industries and professions, veterinary medicine has its stubbornness, right? It's some of its clingingness to tradition for tradition's sake. You're smiling, Pegas, I know that's true, right? You know, you've you've you see that firsthand. And so it can be a very stubborn profession, stubborn to change, stubborn to try something new or different, or or unwilling because of the fear of, well, I see this all too often, like practices having clung to an inept pin system, knowing full well that it's not helping them, it's hurting the situation, but the fear and the work around, well, I can't, I I can't change systems. That's just gonna be that's gonna be worse, right? Fearing the cure is worse than the disease, right? And so I think it's just it's realizing that you need to ever evolve and ever advance and ever adapt. And I think oftentimes it's letting go of what you think is the right way or the true way, or just the least painful way and and moving forward. And that's hard for I think everyone to do. Change is not, I think humanity, humans by nature are creatures of habit, and and we like our rhythms, and things that disrupt those rhythms are very uncomfortable to us, except for maybe the entrepreneurs who seem to enjoy the disruption of rhythm. But I think it's just recognizing you don't have it right and and asking. I don't think it's not just this is not just a boomer versus millennial or Gen Z kind of thing. I think it's something that happens when people get older, is a reluctance to let go and ask the younger generation, the younger, what would you do differently?

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Thinking that their lack of experience or their lack of wisdom somehow somehow disable, disenables them, doesn't allow them to have that sort of uh ability to to see things differently and maybe better.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Okay. Well, let's do one last question and then we'll I want to do at least one of our seven of our stethoscope and spreadsheet seven questions. Yeah. So let's leave uh let's leave this on a higher note. What are you working on that you're excited about?

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Well I don't there's a lot of things. I think I think uh two two big buckets to try to make it succinct is is the first one is just the continued evolution of of VMG itself as an organization and and how we support independent owners and our members right now.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Which which by the way, sorry to interrupt, but like remind me because I was surprised. I saw the numbers recently in terms of VMG's size, and it surprised me.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yeah, we are we're approaching 2400 practices right now in VMG. And when I came on board in 2022, I think we were around 1500.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

So we've we've had some pretty pretty strong pretty strong growth, which is just you know, it's hugely exciting to to see that. Yeah, I mean it it's it's amazing, really. Yeah, and I think part of that is the direction that BMG's been moving into, right? And so that's that again, that first bucket, which is what we're really focused on is helping members not just connect with one another, but uh become stronger operators and leaders in their practice and and in their community. And so for us, that means how do we shape the the conversations, the insights, the resources so that our members have a clearer sense of what high performing independence actually looks like. Because we know we can't help them evolve unless we're evolving. And so the two go hand in hand. So that's that first bucket is that shaping strategically that continued evolution of VMG. The second bucket is some of the broader work which we touched on here in the conversation around the future of independent practice, really thinking about what independent owners are going to need to remain competitive and sustainable, not just this year or next year, but we're really thinking over the next decade that we have to think about it within the long run. And so for us that means uh thinking through everything from leadership and financial performance to business and infrastructure and stronger decision making. And I think I'm increasingly interested in the idea that independent practices don't need to become something else in order to thrive, but what they do need is better structure around them. And so that's where I think we the second bucket again is around BMG, is around how do we provide that better structure around them.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

And then I think can I play that back just to make sure I heard that right? That last piece. Yeah, because what I could you said some, you, you, you said something, and what I heard you say was make operating easier and give them the opportunity to just be great.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Yes, that's it. You said it, you said it more simply. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

I I just I mean, it's it's super, I mean, technology is at a place right like now where if you can cut through the noise, there are massive benefits in terms of time and efficiency and delivery and quality and all of those things. You have to cut through the noise.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

You gotta you gotta cut through the noise. And I think there's a lot of noise in innovation and technology. And for me, actually, I think one of the most important shifts happening right now for the future of veterinary medicine, and this might be a whole other conversation, but I think the future is going to be shaped less by innovation and technology alone, and more by productivity and execution. We have this huge volume of attention being put on the shiny new things, right? AI and new technology, new service models, new digital tools, telehealth, and all of it's really interesting, and all of it has big potential. But the big question I ask myself a lot when we talk about is does any of that actually make the practice better? Fundamentally, fundament at the very fundamental level. Does it make care more accessible? Does it make the team more effective? Does it improve workflow decision making? Or does it just add another layer of complexity? Does it mask terrible workflows, right? And so I think the practices over the next several years that are really going to be successful aren't the ones going, aren't the ones chasing the next innovation or the next technology. They're going to be the ones that are really, really good at integrating the right tools into a new, stronger operating model. And I know that that kind of smashes on everyone's hopes and dreams of AI and Claude and Chat GPT and everything around this is it's only going to transform everything if you transform how your practice actually operates, right? So anyway, that's another conversation I know.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

Well, Matt, as as I posted in your LinkedIn post when you postulated this, it's all about the people. Because if you don't have leadership and you don't have people, and you don't have leadership heading in the right direction, you don't have a business. And the the the technology are adjunctive and supportive of the people. This is a people profession, and we've got to remember that.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

We we got to remember it. And then I would say that's actually the third thing I'm most excited about is BMG's role in telling a bigger story about why independence matters. Yeah. Not just as a business model, but as something worth preserving in the profession. And so we've spent the last two years, maybe 18 months or so, and we're going to be making it a part of BMG as we're going out to member practices and spotlighting and we're getting in with video crews and helping tell the story of what these practices are doing differently. And just trying to tell the story of independence more generally. We really want to make BMG a visible presence in the profession. I think it has had a sort of secret society image over the years, and we're we're pulling the veil, so to speak, because I think we have a responsibility to, and I think we have a an obligation to ensure the integrity of independence within the profession.

SPEAKER_03 36:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

All right. So we have the so-called sinister seven questions, also known as the stethoscope and spreadsheet seven questions, but we're not going to go through all seven. You have a choice. Pick a number from one to seven, and we will test you. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

I I don't have these seven questions in front of me. I should. That's correct. That's all right. Let's go with let's go with number three. Number three. Music, drum roll. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

What keeps you up at night? Okay. Professionally, professionally speaking. Professionally speaking.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Oh, okay. But I don't know where your mind's going. I also uh, you know, you you asked me to give me your history. I usually use three words, you know, husband, father, economists. And so I've got four kids, and then throw into that three cats and a dog, and so it can be a very noisy.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

There's a lot, there's a lot to keep you up at night.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Yeah, but then not professional. Yeah, when the house is quiet, I I generally don't have a whole lot of trouble falling asleep. I gotta say, I'm not a warrior. I I don't I'm really a big believer in the the circle of control, and that helps me keep a level head in all things. And if I can't control it, even if it is something not good and hugely stressful, like it's what it is, it is what it is. I think what keeps me up at night is all the ideas I have of all these exciting things to do, and not enough time to do it, and then my brain just starts to get in this caffeine-free cycle of thinking, and then I can't sleep. I'm thinking, and then I think like I can't if I let this thought go, and so all too often my wife will wake up in the middle of the night and I'm and I'm up because I've like I'm at the computer, it's like I gotta get this, I have to get this thought out or something. And that doesn't happen, like I don't want to give viewers the wrong impression. I am not this deep thinking guy that happens every night, but every so often my brain will will start to trigger this creative brainstorming flow of thoughts and ideas and things, and and so occasionally I'll get caught in a sleepless moment, but you know, and I'll be really tired the next day if I stay up too late, especially if I did some of my creative thinking with a a gin and club soda by my side.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

But it kind of rolls out of bed at 3 a.m. has a gin and club soda, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Yeah, and usually it's not if I fall asleep, I'm not getting up, I'm dead to the world. Usually it's like I've gone to bed and I'm a really early sleeper, like 9:30, 10 o'clock in my brain. So I'm like maybe up till midnight or something. I can't, I can't. The days of me actually doing anything functional at 2 a.m. in the morning died in my 20s, right? That's just not but it's it's rewarding to me. I I'm huge, I'm amplified by that creative thinking because I think there's just so many opportunities and potential within veterinary medicine. There's so many things that I think BMG can do as an organization to support veterinary medicine and independent veterinary medicine in particular. And it's just like it sounds it sounds contrived, but I'm a big Marvel fan. Like it's with great power comes great responsibility. BMG is a powerful organization because of our members. Our members are really they're they're the brains behind everything, and they make up what BMG is at the end of the day. And I think because of that, and our members say this too to us, BMG, they want to give back and they want BMG to give back. And so we have a real responsibility to make sure that we're being the stewards, not just of our members and and their time and what they give into BMG, but making sure that BMG is giving back. And I always remember the words of Link, you know, we were having a conversation and talking about what makes a really good BMG member. And and he boiled it down to a good BMG member wants to give more than they get. And when everyone in BMG does that, everyone gets more than they give. And so I think that's the foundation of BMG. That's how we should operate, not just at an individual level, but an organizational level too.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Amazing. It's been a joy to watch BMG over the last several years and your stewardship of it. So, and to see its success, I and and and the value that I know the members are getting because we hear from them. It's terrific work.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Yeah. Thanks, Martin. It's been a joy to have a history of both the two of you through the years and uh be able to collaborate together on these greater good aspects. I know you both are really passionate about it as well.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

Yeah, we are. So if we were to look to wrap things up, I would say that economics is a significant aspect of the veterinary profession, but we can't forget the people side of things. And we need to use information and data to make decisions, but we shouldn't be hamstrung by that information and data. It should be a resource, it should be a tool, it should be a guide. And there's still so much untapped opportunity in the veterinary profession that we should be really excited about what our future looks like. In spite of all of the challenges that may be out there, we should still be excited about what the next few years will be looking for. That's my takeaway from today. Martin, you want to add anything to that?

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Yeah, I mean, I think this idea that veterinary practices are veterinary practitioners, veterinary practice owners are so far ahead already from you know many other independent businesses. They manage so much complexity already, and I don't think they're given enough credit for it. So I think that that's one thing I'm I'm taking away. Like I kind of I've always sort of known that and appreciated it, but I haven't really had words for that. So I I'm taking that, I'm taking that away today. And and just the uh the uncertainty that complexity brings can be mitigated by focusing on just being a great operator and just delivering, uh, deliver every day.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

And you know, it's not that the complexity will solve itself, but don't let the complexity get don't don't let the complexity be as noisy as it as it often is.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

My mom had a term, illegitimus non-carbourundum. Don't let the bastards get you down.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

So well, my father-in-law used to call them turkeys. Don't let the turkeys get you down.

SPEAKER_03 42:49

Yeah, well. Hey Matt, always great to see you, even if it's only in two dimensions. Look forward to seeing you when we pass cross paths again in the near future. So thank you for being a part of the stethoscope and spreadsheet podcast, and thank you for the support of VMG as Martin and I try to take the messaging out there of the importance of independent veterinary practices. Martin, final words.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

I got nothing except to say thank you to our friend.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it, you both. Thanks, Martin. Thanks, Peter, and I look forward to seeing you out there three dimensionally. Thanks. See you next time.